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beelikejOver 2000 years ago Cicero wrote De Oratore (55 BC). In a long letter to his brother he talks about a discussion between famous public speakers (advocates). Would I have read it, if it was written today? Probably not. Most certainly not. Because the subject of 'rethoric' is not one that appeals to me. But the thought that these rules about speaking in public still apply today makes me smile.
I'm often guilty of arrogance about the time I live in and the knowledge that is available to us these days. So occasionally an old book like this has to be read, to make me realize humans have been struggling to get it right for a long time. Today's society is not necessarily the most intelligent or best constructed system that can be. It's humbling to know the same issues have been up for discussion for a long time. Whether that applies to language or other areas of interest.
That realisation was confirmed when I moved on to the book I'm reading now: Stephen Fry's The Ode Less Traveled. In this book Stephen shares his love for writing poems and offers exercises and examples to convince the reader poetry is worth the effort.
Both Stephen and Cicero emphasize the importance of structure when dealing with language. In fact they almost use the exact same words to explain this.
I've had to translate Cicero's Latin -that I read in Dutch- back to English, so bear with me...
Cicero is talking about speaking in front of an audience.
'The longest line [to use] is the one that can be spoken from beginning to end with one breath; that is nature's measurement, art has more. Aristoteles discourages use of jambees and trochees, because they will flow into our language naturally, but they put too much emphasis [on certain words] and shorten the sentences. [..] Prose has more freedom [than poetry] and is unbound by metre, but that doesn't mean it can run wild, it can only be free within its boundaries [of rules].'
Or as Stephen put it, talking about poetry:
'Adherence to metre does not militate against naturalness. Indeed it is one of the paradoxes of art that structure, form and convention liberate the artist, whereas openness and complete freedom can be seen as a kind of tyranny.
Mankind can live free in a society hemmed in by laws, but we have yet to find a historical example of mankind living free in lawless anarchy.'
He does have a way with words, doesn't he? I don't think I would have even picked up a book about poetry, if it had been written by anyone else. But I'm glad I read it and I was pleasantly surprised how well it fits with Cicero. I had struggled quite a bit with that book, even though it's very enthousiastic about language. I needed Stephen's guidance to make me appreciate the long winded explanations about the beauty and possibilities of both speaking and writing.
In hindsight I like De Oratore. I already was aware of most of the rules about speaking in public, but Cicero was able to make clear there are many different ways to reach the goal of convincing your audience. The important thing is to be informed and know what you're talking about. If you love latin literature or are interested in the history of rethorics, this is a must read.
I'll never be able to put the lessons of The Ode Less Traveled into practice. Most importantly because English isn't my first language, so my vocabulary really isn't big enough to comfortably write anything else but a journal. And even though rhyming isn't necessary, I'd get very frustrated by the inconsistency of the English language, where words that look alike don't sound alike and vice versa. I would get too annoyed trying to find the right words.
I haven't finished the book yet, but I already recommend it to
1. those who already are aware of the genius of Stephen Fry
2. those who love writing
When I'm done I have read every book Stephen Fry ever wrote, from novels to travelreports and essays. (okay, I have avoided the one about Cricket, because I fear he will even manage to make me love that and there is just no way I will get lured into caring about any kind of sport or physical exercise)
If you've never heard of Stephen Fry I pity you and I urge you to try one of his novels. Any one of his books will convince you he is an awesome writer and I'm sure will make you want to read more. But if you don't know where to start I vote for 'Making History', a perfect novel about what could have happened if historical events had been different.
*off to finish The Ode Less Traveled*
I'm often guilty of arrogance about the time I live in and the knowledge that is available to us these days. So occasionally an old book like this has to be read, to make me realize humans have been struggling to get it right for a long time. Today's society is not necessarily the most intelligent or best constructed system that can be. It's humbling to know the same issues have been up for discussion for a long time. Whether that applies to language or other areas of interest.
That realisation was confirmed when I moved on to the book I'm reading now: Stephen Fry's The Ode Less Traveled. In this book Stephen shares his love for writing poems and offers exercises and examples to convince the reader poetry is worth the effort.
Both Stephen and Cicero emphasize the importance of structure when dealing with language. In fact they almost use the exact same words to explain this.
I've had to translate Cicero's Latin -that I read in Dutch- back to English, so bear with me...
Cicero is talking about speaking in front of an audience.
'The longest line [to use] is the one that can be spoken from beginning to end with one breath; that is nature's measurement, art has more. Aristoteles discourages use of jambees and trochees, because they will flow into our language naturally, but they put too much emphasis [on certain words] and shorten the sentences. [..] Prose has more freedom [than poetry] and is unbound by metre, but that doesn't mean it can run wild, it can only be free within its boundaries [of rules].'
Or as Stephen put it, talking about poetry:
'Adherence to metre does not militate against naturalness. Indeed it is one of the paradoxes of art that structure, form and convention liberate the artist, whereas openness and complete freedom can be seen as a kind of tyranny.
Mankind can live free in a society hemmed in by laws, but we have yet to find a historical example of mankind living free in lawless anarchy.'
He does have a way with words, doesn't he? I don't think I would have even picked up a book about poetry, if it had been written by anyone else. But I'm glad I read it and I was pleasantly surprised how well it fits with Cicero. I had struggled quite a bit with that book, even though it's very enthousiastic about language. I needed Stephen's guidance to make me appreciate the long winded explanations about the beauty and possibilities of both speaking and writing.
In hindsight I like De Oratore. I already was aware of most of the rules about speaking in public, but Cicero was able to make clear there are many different ways to reach the goal of convincing your audience. The important thing is to be informed and know what you're talking about. If you love latin literature or are interested in the history of rethorics, this is a must read.
I'll never be able to put the lessons of The Ode Less Traveled into practice. Most importantly because English isn't my first language, so my vocabulary really isn't big enough to comfortably write anything else but a journal. And even though rhyming isn't necessary, I'd get very frustrated by the inconsistency of the English language, where words that look alike don't sound alike and vice versa. I would get too annoyed trying to find the right words.
I haven't finished the book yet, but I already recommend it to
1. those who already are aware of the genius of Stephen Fry
2. those who love writing
When I'm done I have read every book Stephen Fry ever wrote, from novels to travelreports and essays. (okay, I have avoided the one about Cricket, because I fear he will even manage to make me love that and there is just no way I will get lured into caring about any kind of sport or physical exercise)
If you've never heard of Stephen Fry I pity you and I urge you to try one of his novels. Any one of his books will convince you he is an awesome writer and I'm sure will make you want to read more. But if you don't know where to start I vote for 'Making History', a perfect novel about what could have happened if historical events had been different.
*off to finish The Ode Less Traveled*
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Date: 2008-02-03 07:35 pm (UTC)Hehe. Yes. Yes, he does. I just read Moab is my Washpot again and truly, the man's ability to use clever puns and lapses into metaphors never ceases to amaze me. There's some talk about metre and poetic rhythm in it as well, which I loved. As a true classicist, I spent my teenage years rewriting sentences according to metre, like this: _vv/_vv/_vv//_v (and so on) and declaring them loudly. Yes, I was a huge dork...
Anyway! Planning to re-read the Stars' Tennis Balls and The Liar again soon, but the poetry book will follow eventually ;).
I read De Oratore in Latin when I was 17. Latin rhetoric was never really my thing, and it was only made worse by Cicero's tendency to write sentences that span an average of 20 lines (bastard!). Demosthenes was much more up my alley. Please tell me the translation has a normal-sized sentence structure? ;)
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Date: 2008-02-03 08:47 pm (UTC)Once again I am in awe of your education and memory of it. I did take classes in Greek and Latin in highschool, but forgot most of it. (I only remember my Latin exam-text was about a dolphin and a boy and I completely fucked up the translation)
The translators made a point of admitting to shortening the sentences to a readable size:) It wasn't as much the story that I was struggling with as the extensive notes they put on every page. I still want to go through the appendix, since there is a lot of interesting background on historical figures.