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beelikejSo. The Threesome Handbook. Y'all know why I bought that, don't you? Whatever you think: it honestly wasn't because of the subject. I would have bought Vicki Vantoch's book whatever it was about (with the exception maybe of gardening or golf;) because she happens to be a person that I'm interested in by proxy. *grins*
From my previous posts on the book, both written while I was reading it (about three way marriage in the Netherlands and using astrology to find a partner), you may have gotten the impression that I was disappointed. I am not!
The Threesome Handbook is an interesting and informative book, written in a fun style with loads of personal accounts of the good, the bad and the ugly sides of threesome relationships. I learned a lot. I was surprised there were more combinations of three people than I thought and it was a joy to be educated on the subject.
I can't even handle a relationship with one person, so I'm fascinated by people who are willing to open themselves up to others, and exponentially so by people who are able to share.
It's just that I was thrown off immediately in the introduction by the casual mentioning of a three way marriage in the Netherlands. Based on being Dutch, I knew that couldn't be true (and not because I hadn't heard of it;). It annoys me a lot when authors or editors offer that kind of argument and then fail to provide a source. I tried to let it go and read on, only to find another more specific mention on page 120:
Any Dutch person could tell you right away there is something wrong with this information. The names are obviously misspelled. And if one can't even get those right, what is the worth of the actual statement? Not satisfied with the lack of a source, I decided to do some research on my own, if only to check if I was right about marriage in the Netherlands always being between two people.
Now before I give you my findings, let me once again assure you that the book is awesome. This three-way-marriage issue is the ONLY verifiable news-item on the subject of threesomes mentioned in the book. The rest of the book is based on Vantoch's research amongst American threesomes and contains a lot of useful tips from several personal accounts. The only other actual-fact that's used for comparison is the 50% divorce rate for traditional marriages in the U.S., which I feel no need to dismiss, as I suspect that's pretty accurate.
I would also like to make clear that I don't attack out of spite. Even though my hopes were smashed after inititally being told that bisexual single women are the most desirable amongst threesomes. Apparently being a loner puts me on the list of 'people to avoid in three-ways' and my starsign is the only one that scores a measly 1 out of 4 on the threesome meter. Fuck. It's a good thing Capricorns don't believe in astrology.
The truth about marriage and civil unions in the Netherlands
Here is a news article about the "marriage" between one man and two women that Vantoch refers to in her book.
While judging the tone of the articles1, be aware of the source: it's a self-stated conservative newspaper. For the record: I went through the archives of several progressive and neutral Dutch newspapers, but could NOT find even a tiny article on the event. Isn't that fascinating?
My summary of facts: in September 2005 married couple Victor and Bianca de Bruijn signed a cohabitation contract (samenlevingscontract*) with Mirjam Geven, who came to live with them after she divorced her husband. Victor wore a suit, the women both wore traditional weddingdresses.
Spot the difference:
Burgerlijk huwelijk = civil marriage (For all couples since 2001)
Geregistreerd partnerschap = civil union (Introduced in 1998)
Samenlevingscontract = a cohabitation contract: a written agreement, sometimes registered before a notary. (can be between two or more people sharing a house)
A marriage and a union are recorded in civil registration ("opgeslagen bij de burgerlijke stand"), a cohabitation contract is not.
Additional information
In Dutch law marriage and civil union are equal but for the issue of children born from the relationship: in the latter children are not automatically recognized as offspring from both partners; the father has to acknowledge the children to be registered or -in same sex unions- the partner can adopt the child to be equal parents under the law.
To end a civil union you don't need to go to court, but when you want to divorce you do have to get permission from a judge.
Conclusion: the threesome mentioned above may have worn wedding attire when they signed their agreement, but that does not make it a marriage (nor a civil union), no matter how they personally feel about it.
1When judging my tone; be aware I'm a green, left-wing, feminist, bisexual and celebate woman. (If you need additional, possibly relevant information, ask! :-)
The Threesome Handbook by Vicki Vantoch is available at The Bookdepository
From my previous posts on the book, both written while I was reading it (about three way marriage in the Netherlands and using astrology to find a partner), you may have gotten the impression that I was disappointed. I am not!
The Threesome Handbook is an interesting and informative book, written in a fun style with loads of personal accounts of the good, the bad and the ugly sides of threesome relationships. I learned a lot. I was surprised there were more combinations of three people than I thought and it was a joy to be educated on the subject.
I can't even handle a relationship with one person, so I'm fascinated by people who are willing to open themselves up to others, and exponentially so by people who are able to share.
It's just that I was thrown off immediately in the introduction by the casual mentioning of a three way marriage in the Netherlands. Based on being Dutch, I knew that couldn't be true (and not because I hadn't heard of it;). It annoys me a lot when authors or editors offer that kind of argument and then fail to provide a source. I tried to let it go and read on, only to find another more specific mention on page 120:
Any Dutch person could tell you right away there is something wrong with this information. The names are obviously misspelled. And if one can't even get those right, what is the worth of the actual statement? Not satisfied with the lack of a source, I decided to do some research on my own, if only to check if I was right about marriage in the Netherlands always being between two people.
Now before I give you my findings, let me once again assure you that the book is awesome. This three-way-marriage issue is the ONLY verifiable news-item on the subject of threesomes mentioned in the book. The rest of the book is based on Vantoch's research amongst American threesomes and contains a lot of useful tips from several personal accounts. The only other actual-fact that's used for comparison is the 50% divorce rate for traditional marriages in the U.S., which I feel no need to dismiss, as I suspect that's pretty accurate.
I would also like to make clear that I don't attack out of spite. Even though my hopes were smashed after inititally being told that bisexual single women are the most desirable amongst threesomes. Apparently being a loner puts me on the list of 'people to avoid in three-ways' and my starsign is the only one that scores a measly 1 out of 4 on the threesome meter. Fuck. It's a good thing Capricorns don't believe in astrology.
The truth about marriage and civil unions in the Netherlands
Here is a news article about the "marriage" between one man and two women that Vantoch refers to in her book.
While judging the tone of the articles1, be aware of the source: it's a self-stated conservative newspaper. For the record: I went through the archives of several progressive and neutral Dutch newspapers, but could NOT find even a tiny article on the event. Isn't that fascinating?
My summary of facts: in September 2005 married couple Victor and Bianca de Bruijn signed a cohabitation contract (samenlevingscontract*) with Mirjam Geven, who came to live with them after she divorced her husband. Victor wore a suit, the women both wore traditional weddingdresses.
Spot the difference:
Burgerlijk huwelijk = civil marriage (For all couples since 2001)
Geregistreerd partnerschap = civil union (Introduced in 1998)
Samenlevingscontract = a cohabitation contract: a written agreement, sometimes registered before a notary. (can be between two or more people sharing a house)
A marriage and a union are recorded in civil registration ("opgeslagen bij de burgerlijke stand"), a cohabitation contract is not.
Additional information
In Dutch law marriage and civil union are equal but for the issue of children born from the relationship: in the latter children are not automatically recognized as offspring from both partners; the father has to acknowledge the children to be registered or -in same sex unions- the partner can adopt the child to be equal parents under the law.
To end a civil union you don't need to go to court, but when you want to divorce you do have to get permission from a judge.
Conclusion: the threesome mentioned above may have worn wedding attire when they signed their agreement, but that does not make it a marriage (nor a civil union), no matter how they personally feel about it.
1When judging my tone; be aware I'm a green, left-wing, feminist, bisexual and celebate woman. (If you need additional, possibly relevant information, ask! :-)
The Threesome Handbook by Vicki Vantoch is available at The Bookdepository
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no subject
Date: 2010-08-28 01:49 pm (UTC)Burgerlijk huwelijk = borgelig ekteskap.
Geregistreerd partnerschap = registrert partnerskap.
Samenlevingscontract = samlivskontrakt.
Registrert Partnerskap has been the same way in Norway as in Holland - the kids has had to be adopted by the other parent. This has however been the only adoption they have been allowed to do - because Norwegian laws say you'll have to be married (not partner) to adopt. So that left people in registrert partnesrkap, in samlivskontrakt or singles unable to adopt, with the exception of the partnesrship adoption for the other parent. (which was made an excetion for the safety of the kids - one didn't want the kids to risk losing the other parent if the biological parent died.)
You can't get assistence to get pregnant (IVF) if you are not married in Norway.
Registrert Parnesrkap was introdced in Norway in 1993 (as the second country in the world) but as 1 January 2009 you can no longer register in partnership (you can chose to keep your old partnership though if you wre allready in a partnership) but you can now have an actual same sex marriage. (and those who were already in a partnership could have their partnership re-registered as a marriage automatically without any new information and seremonies... or keep it as partnership)
This means that gay married couples can finally adopt in Norway, and lesbian married couple can get help getting pregnant through IVF.
no subject
Date: 2010-08-28 02:18 pm (UTC)Civil unions were mostly introduced so gay and lesbian couples could register their relationship. I understand that now any couple can get officially married, only people who have issues with traditional marriage choose civil unions instead.
no subject
Date: 2010-08-28 09:21 pm (UTC)Wife = kone or hustru (kone is more common that the mor old facioned hustru (hustru is a version of husfrue which means "house wife" - U know - the lady of the house)
Spouse = ektefelle.
no subject
Date: 2010-08-29 11:23 am (UTC)Heh: a house wife = 'huisvrouw' in Dutch!
no subject
Date: 2010-08-28 07:15 pm (UTC)(And hee, this reminds me of that documentary that mentioned that in the Netherlands, a man had been married to his dog. Sometimes I think people make stuff up about your country just for the hell of it.)
no subject
Date: 2010-08-29 11:35 am (UTC)It was annoying that the one thing that was verifiable was so insufficiently checked by both the author and editor. I explained before why it especially made me a little sad that it even had to be mentioned in order to somehow give more credibility to the commitment of threesomes. I hate that marriage is 'needed' as validation for relationships.
But, yeah, besides that little peeve, the book is rather cool.
Hey, I don't mind the reputation of The Netherlands, but they should at least get the names right;)