beelikej: (Kate)
[personal profile] beelikej
Last night I was so caught up in a story, I sat behind my computer reading until 04.30 am. I still managed to get up at 06.30 and work all day *g*, but needless to say my brain was a bit fried. In a jettlaggy way. (Thank you [livejournal.com profile] artistic_sillie for the rec to the first chapter of that mega-fic)

I'll give you the link to the whole damn story later, but since it brought up some questions I want to talk to you about SEX first, so don't scroll down yet;)

Because I've always been a bit confused about the meaning of the phrase 'having sex'. (I know I'm not the only one, seeing as there have been discussions about the subject up to the highest level of government in the USA...).
In this fic the college-students only use that verb for the act of penetrating the vagina or anus with a penis. While I thought 'having sex' applied to everything involving touching genitals. But seeing as even a former President doesn't consider a blowjob part of having sex, I guess I'm wrong.

But I did some research and I found it may be a linguistic issue more than a social issue. Because in Dutch we use the same word (except we spell it differently after the last language debate *rolls eyes*) and according to my dictionary
seks = handelingen en gevoelens die te maken hebben met lichamelijke opwinding en vrijen;
which translated comes to:
"actions and feelings concerning physical excitement and fondling". (the meaning of the word 'vrijen' flows from cuddling to making out to fucking)

But the english dictionary says this:
sex - sexual intercourse
have sex - have sexual intercourse with;

I suppose intercourse is the decent word for fucking? Because that would explain why people say they are not having sex even though there may have been handjobs, blowjobs and/or licking/touching below the belt. To me this feels like some sort of denial of intimate physical contact. I think it's actually hypocritical and a bit weird. As is the part that you can only have sex 'with' someone apparently. Because I think you can absolutely have sex on your own, but according to this definition I am not having sex. Huh.

But wait: the definition of intercourse = the act of having sex. Great. Right back where I started getting confused. So I guess 'having sex' CAN mean all of the above? It just depends on your own point of view?

I did notice all the synonyms for having sex - (bonk, do it, eff, fuck, get it on, get laid, have a go at it, have intercourse, have it away, have it off, be intimate, lie with, roll in the hay, screw, sleep together, sleep with, make love, hump, jazz, love, bed, bang, make out, know) refer to the act of penetration, not sucking or licking.

Thoughts anyone? I'm really curious to know whether there is confusion about this in other languages. I fear sex in general is a source for miscommunication?

If you need time to think about the subject (or do some research;), here is the promised link to that fic, in which Jared and Jensen are not having sex. Okay maybe a little... eventually... *g*
Things I Learned My Freshman Year Of College (The verse continues into the summervacation and beyond, which is what I'm gonna read now. I hope I manage to get more sleep tonight. One more day until the weekend. I need to be fit since I'm planning a trip to Amsterdam;)

Date: 2008-08-07 08:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bflyw.livejournal.com
Ok, I've bookmarked the fic to read later...
Hm... haven't thought about this in a while, but it has been on my mind earlier. I remember watching Oprah Show once where it was mentioned that it was shockong that most teenagers in the US did NOT consider a blow job to be sex...

In Norwegian a blow job is called munn-sex (mouth/oral sex) and pf course that is sex, even the name indicates that! I do think a lot of people don't consider a hand job sex though... or well... whatever you do to yourself. I would say though, that whatever I decide to give myself a good time is part of my sex life! But I guess a lot of people (and probably me as well) would say "no" to having sex lately if asked if all you have done in a long while is 'doing it to yourself' :-) Sad really..... So I guess in every day talk, sex is something between two people (at least).

Date: 2008-08-12 08:08 pm (UTC)
ext_63196: (Kiss)
From: [identity profile] beelikej.livejournal.com
I hope that fic will suck you in as well, I love college AUs:)

I think I saw that Oprah show as well. Shocking indeed. I remember another discussion (probably not on American TV) where a woman said a blowjob used to be something special, that you would do in an established relationship, while nowadays it's some sort of foreplay, not even considered part of having sex.

After reading all the comments I appear to be not having sex. And here I thought I was having a great sex-life on my own. Huh.

Date: 2008-08-12 09:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bflyw.livejournal.com
sucked in? You think? I've spent a couple of days reading ALL CHAPTERS posted (and that is a lot - considering it's multiple multi-chapter fics) and now I am reading what's posted today!
I am addicted!

Date: 2008-08-13 07:15 pm (UTC)
ext_63196: (Kate)
From: [identity profile] beelikej.livejournal.com
Awesome! I just started reading the freshman-years from Jensen's point of view. Mmmm.

Date: 2008-08-07 09:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sneaky-sena.livejournal.com
I consider a hand job to be sex. I consider two people pleasuring themselves while in the same room to be sex. I think of dry humping as sex. I don't think it's a language thing so much as it's a mind set thing--since I'm a lesbian, none of the sex I have involves a penis, but I know I'm definitely involving sex.

Princess Bananas, on the other hand, constantly says things like, "Well, they've given each other blowjobs but they haven't had sex." And then I say, "Um. A blowjob is sex." And she'll say, "I know, but you know what I mean. They haven't had the full on sex." And I'll sigh wearily and explain to her that just because the hetero majority thinks that sex has to mean penis in vagina or anus doesn't mean that that's what sex really is.

Date: 2008-08-12 08:13 pm (UTC)
ext_63196: (Kate)
From: [identity profile] beelikej.livejournal.com
I totally agree with you and am glad you mentioned the lesbian sex, since I forgot to add that in my post.

I am a little dissapointed to find out I'm not actually "having sex", since my life does not include a partner. Does that mean I'm celibate? That sounds so... virginal.

Date: 2008-08-12 12:10 am (UTC)
ext_28210: (Default)
From: [identity profile] tanisafan.livejournal.com
Hmm I'm gonna have to think about this to get my thoughts on it in a proper and coherent order but I think that usually, to avoid confusion, I use the term 'having sex' for actions that, to put it bluntly, involve penetration. To me personally, though, sex refers to all actions that (um, hopefully) result in orgasms. Does that make sense?

I guess it's not just a linguistic issue, but an individual matter more than anything, though.

Date: 2008-08-12 08:14 pm (UTC)
ext_63196: (Kate)
From: [identity profile] beelikej.livejournal.com
You are making sense to me:)

Well, if it's an individual matter I will keep on saying I'm having sex, even though I'm having it all by myself. *g*

Date: 2008-08-21 01:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] giwu.livejournal.com
My own opinion is that anything that results in orgasm is sex, whether it be handjob or blowjob. I guess masturbation would be solo sex.

Fondling is also a good word to describe activities other than penis penetrating vagina.

Date: 2008-08-23 06:12 pm (UTC)
ext_63196: (Kate)
From: [identity profile] beelikej.livejournal.com
Ahw, yes, good description, although I understand a lot of women are 'having sex' without it ending in orgasm. I'm at least glad I don't have to rely on a partner to get me there.

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